INTERVIURI

Interviu FIVE THE HIEROPHANT

Toate ideile revolutionare se nasc in arta independenta, in underground. Ele se nasc dintr-o necesitate autentica, din rebeliune, din nevoia de a te stabili in opozitie cu plictisitoarea stare actuala.

(For English, scroll down)

 

Este o reala placere cand primim trupe de care nu am mai auzit, iar albumele pe care le ascultam sa ne surprinda, char sa ne impresonieze. Este si cazul trio-ului britanic FIVE THE HIEROPHANT, care a lansat acum cateva zile un debut spectaculos pentru iubitorii de sonoritati dark de avangarda. De aceea am considerat ca este bine sa aflam cateva detalii de la misterioasa trupa britanica, pe care sa le impartasim cu voi.

Publicul din Romania a aflat de FIVE THE HIEROPHANT, in luna august, in cadrul festivalului Dark Bombastic Evening si putem spune ca de atunci, multi sunt captivati de muzica voastra, judecand dupa numarul crescut de linkuri distribuite in social media. Pentru Europa de est, DBE este oarecum o versiune la scara redusa a Roadburnului, de aceea nu e o mirare faptul ca DBE reuseste sa ne surprinda de fiecare data cu muzica noua, inca nelansata, care, la finele festivalului ne arunca, pe multi dintre noi, intr-o stare de profunda melancolie. O coincidenta draguta a fost atunci cand valul de caldura, numit Lucifer, ne-a invaluit pe tot parcursul festivalului si ne-a ametit cu totul in timp ce deja eram patrunsi de ritmurile muzicii din spatele povestii lui Phlegethon si Styx. A fost o atmosfera de-a dreptul halucinanta, cu ritmuri dark, repetitive, care cu siguranta ne-au lasat pe cei mai multi dintre noi intr-o stare de transa.

Cat de potrivit! Hahah. Sa speram ca Lucifer se va arata si anul viitor, deoarece planuim sa vizitam Romania si sa cantam la DBE... Am fost surprins sa vad cati oameni au raspuns pozitiv la muzica noastra.

Nu se gasesc prea multe informatii despre FIVE THE HIEROPHANT pe net, stim doar ca este un trio din UK, format din Mitch, la bass si efecte, Chris la tobe si diverse instrumente de percutie si महाकाली la chitara, vioara si pian. A trebuit sa traduc ultimul nume si din ce am aflat, Mahakali, in limba sanscrita, este zeita Hindu a timpului si a mortii. Care sunt motivele pentru care ai ales acest nume si cine este persoana din spatele acestui pseudonim?

Nu sunt prea multe informatii, deoarece intr-o situatie ideala ar trebui ca ceea ce conteaza sa fie muzica si nu tot surplusul ce o inconjoara. Poate sunt naiv sa gandesc in felul acesta, dar as prefer ca muzica sa fie punctul central. Nu cine stie ce cult al personalitatii de rockstar. Mi-ar placea sa cred ca suntem doar niste mesageri. Maha Kali este Marea Distrugatoare. Este doar un pseudonim, dar am o relatie profunda cu ea. In cateva saptamani voi merge iar intr-un fel de pelerinaj la templul lui Kali din Himalaia, este un loc foarte bizar, un templu micut in padure. Acolo, caprele sunt sacrificate pentru a aduce ofrande zeitei insetate de sange…

Cum v-ati cunoscut voi trei, cine a avut ideea formarii unei trupe? Aveti un lider in trupa, este cineva, sa zicem, care tine legatura cu casa de discuri sau se ocupa de chestiunile mai practice?

Acum mult timp, poate cu 10 ani in urma, eu si Chris lucram impreuna in acelasi studio de tatuaje si intr-un final am inceput sa cantam impreuna. Mitch ni s-a alaturat mai tarziu si, de atunci, lucrurile au inceput sa evolueze... fara lideri si fara sefi. Cand vine vorba de casa de discuri, eu sunt cel care tine legatura cu ei.

Exista deja un EP cu acelasi nume, lansat candva in trecut, la labelul polonez Witching Hour Productions. Cum de v-ati decis sa schimbati casa de discuri si sa semnati lansarea primului vostru album cu labelul norvegian Dark Essence Records? Aveti o abordare destul de internationala, hehe.

Ca sa fiu sincer, acel EP este mai degraba un demo, o repetitie in studio, pe care initial o inregistrasem doar pentru noi. De aceea nici productia nu este la fel de buna. Si totusi, a fost bine ca l-am lansat, caci astfel am inceput sa intelegem unde ne situam si incotro ne indreptam. Da, a fost lansat de Witching Hour, dar ulterior n-au mai parut interesati in a lansa mai multe din materialele noastre. Ceea ce este ok, pentru ca nu aveam asteptari de la label, asa ca ne-am orientat catre alte taramuri... si am ajuns in Bergen. Deci fara alte transferuri internationale, momentan. Desi, chiar nu vad o problema in acest sens. Muzica este o forma de comunicare transnationala si n-am avea nicio problema sa o lansam in alte colturi ale planetei...

Cand vine vorba despre temele pe care le abordati in muzica voastra, pentru mine, ca cineva care nu cunoaste multe despre misticism, ocultism, exista un anume grad de confuzie, daca ar fi sa ma raportez la titlurile pieselor sau chiar la termenul hierofant, care in cartile de tarot este Marele Preot, un initiator in mistere, o punte de legatura intre zei si oameni. Daca prima piesa ma duce cu gandul la legenda raurilor Phlegethon si Styx, din mitologia greaca, Vampire ma indreapta catre o cu totul alta directie... si mai este si piesa cu titlul in limba germana, care s-ar traduce „Spiritul ce neaga intotdeauna”. Exista o conexiune intre aceste titluri sau un intreg concept in spatele acestui album? Imi place ca albumul se incheie cu „Omen Tree”, piesa aceasta are asa o atmosfera intunecata, nepamanteana, parca invaluita in ceata intrepatrunsa de raze orbitoare de lumina, in care se aude o voce ca un ecou venind de nicaieri, este ceva special in legatura cu aceasta ultima piesa?

Pai, nu suntem o trupa conceptuala, iar acesta nu este un album conceptual. Asadar, nu exista o cheie pentru a deschide toate usile necunoscutului, ar fi mult prea usor. Nu trebuie sa cunosti multe despre ocultism ca sa il poti intelege. Doar simplul fapt ca facem acest interviu, inseamna ca tu intelegi acest album destul de bine, ca am reusit sa comunicam cu tine destul de bine. Spre exemplu, s-ar putea sa nu intelegi limba tibetana sau principiile Budismului tibetan, dar daca iei parte la ceremonia Puja, vei intelege, in mare parte, despre ce este vorba, chiar daca instinctiv. Desigur, sunt multe idei si referinte in muzica noastra si acestea sunt foarte eclectice, sincretice. Voi incerca totusi sa explic. Hierofantul era un mare preot antic grec, initiator in mistere. O persoana care aducea participantii, audienta, adica pe tine, in sfera sacrului, precum ai spus si tu. Si asta e, de fapt. Noi suntem hierofanti, suntem shamani. Prin muzica facem un ritual shamanic pentru a va inlesni o transcendenta, sau sa spun altfel, sa va facilitam acea conexiune. Chiar daca nu e o transcendenta reala, asta nu face ca transa shamanica sa fie mai putin magica. Prin unele piese se ratacesc diferite poezii si idei. „Der Geist…”, de exemplu, este din Goethe, cand Mephisto isi dezvaluie adevarata natura lui Faust, care este raul. „Omen Tree” este una dintre piesele mele preferate, unde am cantat la corn tibetan, si sper sa mergem mai mult in directia asta. Nu cred ca exista doar un singur mod corect de a interpreta o opera de arta. Ceea ce a vrut artistul sa exprime prin ea ar putea fi irelevant. Orice interpretare e la fel de valabila, asa ca sa nu pierdem timp incercand sa intelegem, deoarece este o risipa de timp si ar fi mai bine ca fiecare sa aiba propria-i perceptie.

Din moment ce am mentionat de mitologia greaca, acel „Five” din FIVE THE HIEROPHANT are vreo legatura cu cele cinci rauri din Infern?

Nu m-am gandit sa aiba vreo legatura, dar poate are acum.

Ne-ar placea sa cantati la Dark Bombastic Evening, cum am spus si mai inainte, muzica voastra se potriveste perfect acestui tip de festival. Cand vine vorba de concerte, aveti o preferinta pentru spatiile deschise sau, mai degraba, pentru concerte indoor? Care ar fi spatiul ideal pentru o prestatie live?

Nu am mai cantat live pana acum. Lucram la asta, incet, si speram sa fie posibil cat de curand. Personal, prefer sa cantam in spatii sau in cluburi mici, deoarece se creeaza o experienta imediata mult mai intensa. Exista o idee, in sudul Londrei, sub ruinele unei foste biserici, sunt niste catacombe pe care le vizitasem… biserica nu mai exista, dar catacombele sunt inca acolo, pline de sicrie putrezite. Nu sunt deschise si nu e usor sa intri, dar este posibil. Acela ar fi un loc ideal unde sa cantam, probabil nu cu tot setul de tobe si instrumente, ci doar piese ambientale. Nu sunt sigur cat e de realist, dar cu siguranta ar fi ideal. Sa cantam la DBE ar fi de asemenea grozav si, bineinteles, vom spera sa se intample.

Psychedelic Black Metal, Jazz, Post Metal, Ambient, riff-uri apasatoare, atmosfera halucinanta si intensitate Black Metal, toate acestea intr-un album superb. De unde va trageti inspiratia, ce alti artisti va influenteaza in actul creativ?

Nu vrem sa fim etichetati asa-sau-asa, pentru ca ar insemna sa ne limitam. Dar ai dreptate, ne inspiram din atatea surse, foarte diferite unele de celelalte. De la rockul anilor ’70 pana la Doom si Black Metal, de la Krautrock, Psychedelic, via muzica experimentala, pana la Noise si Ambient. De la The Doors pana la Burzum... Nu, nici macar nu le voi insirui aici pe toate, pentru ca ar fi practic imposibil.

Bun, destul cu aiurelile filosofice, la urma-urmei, traim cu totii aici, acum, pe acest Pamant, heh... Trecand la chestiuni mai practice, cum este viata voastra de zi cu zi? Sunteti pasionati de lectura, pictura, practicati sporturi, aveti joburi normale, petreceti pana in zori?

Niciodata nu sunt destule aiureli filosofice! Da, fac toate chestiile pe care le-ai mentionat, citesc mult, atat cat imi permite timpul, si intotdeauna sunt teancuri de carti noi prin casa. Tocmai ce-am trecut prin autobiografia stufoasa a lui Cosey Fanni Tutti, din Throbbing Gristle si, frate, ce chestii interesante si intense am gasit acolo. In afara de asta, citesc multa istorie, scrieri politice, in mare parte stangiste, dar si despre totalitarism, al Treilea Reich, razboiul din Iugoslavia, din punct de vedere istoric, bineinteles, citesc de asemenea psihologie, filosofie, despre religii, arta, beletristica precum Borges, Marques, Houellebecq si acestea sunt doar chestii recente. Obisnuiam sa pictez mult in ulei, acum nu la fel de mult, din cauza lipsei de timp. Bineinteles ca avem joburi mai mult sau mai putin normale, cat despre petreceri, nu voi deschide subiectul asta...

Presupun ca inca nu este cazul sa castigati bani din muzica, din moment ce urmeaza sa va lansati primul album peste cateva zile, deci care sunt asteptarile voastre in ceea ce priveste aceasta lansare? Va asteptati la o recunoastere imediata, poate?

Sa fim realisti. Cand e vorba despre acest gen de muzica, experimentala, cu siguranta nu se va intampla. Recunoastere... suna aproape ca o insulta. Daca ceva, o opera de arta, are recunoastere in masa, atunci trebuie sa fie ceva total gresit la ea. Pentru ca daca primeste runde de aplauze si aprecieri si toata lumea e multumita, atunci probabil este predictibila, slaba, neprovocatoare. O ascultare usoara pentru un consumator neimplicat. O antiteza a artei. Da, stiu, orice trupa mediocra isi aroga valori morale ridicate prin acest tip de atitudine pretentioasa. Oricum, sa facem bani din muzica este ultimul lucru pe care vrem sa-l obtinem noi acum.

Si o ultima intrebare, ce credeti despre miscarea Underground? Uneori compromisul intra in joc, exista o linie fina intre muzica underground si cea de masa, in opinia ta, unde incepe mainstreamul?

Tocmai am raspuns la aceasta intrebare mai sus. Toate ideile revolutionare se nasc in arta independenta, in underground. Ele se nasc dintr-o necesitate autentica, din rebeliune, din nevoia de a te stabili in opozitie cu plictisitoarea stare actuala. Apoi, acestea devin vizibile si lumea incepe sa le adopte ca si cum ar fi propriile lor idei. Cand ceva nou devine in scurt timp popular, atunci acele idei revolutionare se transforma in oportunitati de castig. Devin diluate, ambalate in doze mici, usor digerabile de masele infometate si plictisite. Si apoi iau forma propriei lor caricaturi. Sfarsit de ciclu. Fiecare sau aproape fiecare miscare culturala sau artistica neconventionala a fost exploatata si distrusa in acest mod. Oamenii ajung sa distruga orice ating. Asa ca, spune-mi tu, e mai bine sa fii un artist necunoscut infometat sau o caricatura rockstar, cumperi de 9.99 si primesti unul gratis? Uneori nici eu nu sunt sigur.

In incheierea interviului, noi cei de la Muzaholic gravitam in jurul notiunii de "frumos", ce inseamna acest concept pentru tine?

Frumosul... ca artist, incerc sa ma distantez pe cat posibil de ceea ce este considerat frumos. Cu alte cuvinte, cand ceva este frumos in sensul traditional, de obicei inseamna ca este kitsch. Sau este pretentios. Poate ca suna straniu, dar gasesc frumusetea in lucrurile considerate de ceilalti a fi urate. In degradare si imperfectiune. In lucruri care imi dezvaluie realitatea cruda. In lucruri care ma scot din rutina zilnica si letargie. Spre exemplu, colectionez cranii umane si le gasesc incredibil de frumoase. E greu de explicat de ce se intampla asta, presupun ca depinde de sensibilitatea fiecaruia...

Multumim mult pentru timpul acordat, succes cu lansarea!

Mersi pentru sustinere.

Pentru noi discutia a fost interesanta, desi a fost cam scurta. Va reamintim ca auditia acestui album poate fi facuta aici. Vom vedea ce si cum se va intampla, poate se va gasi acea catacomba perfecta pentru ei, sa poata fi vazuti si in varianta live.

 

 

Underground, independent art is where all the wild ideas are born. They are born out of authentic necessity, out of rebellion, out of a need to establish yourself in opposition to the rotten boring status quo.”

 

We are always delighted to receive music from bands we’ve never heard of, even more, when we are deeply impressed or even surprised by it. Such is the case with the British trio FIVE THE HIEROPHANT, who has recently released a spectacular album for those who are into dark avant-garde sonorities. Therefore, we thought it’s a good opportunity to find out and then share with you a few details about this mysterious British band.

Hi, guys!

Our Romanian public was introduced to your music this August, at the Dark Bombastic Evening festival and ever since we can tell the people are captivated by FIVE THE HIEROPHANT from the increasing number of shared links on social media. DBE is known to be a somewhat smaller version of Roadburn in the Eastern Europe, so it’s no wonder DBE is always surprising us with freshly baked music that leaves us all in some kind of post-festival trance. A rather beautiful coincidence was when the Lucifer heatwave hit us right in the middle of the festival and got us all dazed while we were submerging in the rhythms behind the story of Phlegethon and Styx. A dark, repetitive, hallucinating atmosphere that has certainly put many of us in a state of trance.

How appropriate! Hahah. Let us hope Lucifer will re-emerge next year as well, as we are planning and hoping to visit Romania and play at DBE... I was surprised to see how many people from Romania has responded positively to our music.

There’s not much information on FIVE THE HIEROPHANT on the net, we know that it’s a UK trio formed by Mitch, on bass and effects, Chris on drums, temple bells, djembe, shakers and gong, and महाकाली, on guitars, bowed guitars, rag-dung, violin and grand piano noise. I had to translate the last name and, as I found out, it’s the Sankrit for Mahakali, the Hindu Goddess of time and death. What are the reasons you chose this “stage name” and who is the person behind this pseudonym?

There's not much information, because in an ideal situation it should be music that matters and not all the bullshit that surrounds it. Maybe it’s naive of me to think that way, but I'd prefer if music was the focal point. Not some rockstar personality cult. I'd like to think we are only messengers. Maha Kali is the Great Destroyer. It’s just a pseudonym, but I have a deep relationship with it. In a few weeks I will once again go on a sort of pilgrimage to the temple of Kali in the Himalayas, it’s a truly bizarre place, a really tiny temple in the forest. There, goats are being sacrificed to please the bloodthirsty deity... 

How did you three meet up, who had the idea of starting a band? Is there a bandleader, someone who let’s say, keeps in touch with the label or deals with more practical matters?

Long time ago, maybe 10 years, me and Chris we both worked together in the same tattoo studio, and eventually, we started jamming together. Mitch joined later and things evolved from there... No leaders, no masters. When it comes to the label, it’s me who is in touch with them.

There is a self-titled EP, released sometime in the past, by the Polish label Witching Hour Productions, how come you decided to shift to a Norwegian label and signed the release of your first full-length album Over Phlegethon with Dark Essence Records? I would say you’re approach is pretty international, so to speak, heh 

The EP is, to be honest, just a demo, a studio rehearsal that we recorded, initially just for ourselves. That’s why the production is not as good. And yet, it was a good release as I think we started to understand where we stand and where we are heading to. Yes, we had it released by Witching Hour, but later they didn't seem to be interested in releasing any more of our stuff. It’s okay because we didn’t have any expectations regarding the label, so we drifted away... and landed in Bergen. If things go well we will be happy to stay with Dark Essence, because they are good guys, dedicated. So no more international transfers for now. But I don’t really see a problem with that anyway. Music is a transnational form of communication and we would not have a problem to release it in any corner of the planet...

Now, as for the themes you’re approaching in your music, for me, as someone who’s not much into the occult or mysticism there’s a certain degree of confusion maybe when it comes to song titles or even starting with the term “Hierophant”, which in tarot cards is the High Priest, a builder of the bridge between deity and humanity. But when reading the song titles, “Queen over Phlegethon” leads me thinking at the story of Phlegethon and Styx, in the Greek mythology, while “Vampire” takes me to a whole different direction and then there’s track titled in German, translating into something like the spirit always denies… Is there a connection between these titles or a unifying concept behind this album? I love how the album ends with “Omen Tree”, it has such a dark, otherworldly atmosphere, shrouded in fog, infused with dazzling bright lights, and then there’s that voice coming out of nowhere… Is there something special about this song?

Well, we are not a concept band and this is not a concept album. So there isn't one simple key to unlocking all the doors here. That would be too easy. You don’t need to be into occult mysticism to understand it. Just the fact that we are doing this interview means that you understand it well enough, that we managed to communicate with you well enough. For example, you may not understand Tibetan language or principles of Tibetan Buddhism but if you take part in Puja (ceremony) you will understand in general what they are all about, even if instinctively. Of course, there is a lot of ideas and references in our music and they are very eclectic, syncretic. I will try to explain. Hierophant was a high priest in ancient Greek mysteries. A person who brings the participants, the audience, that is you, to the sphere of the 'sacred', just like you said. And that is what it is. We are hierophants, we are shamans. We perform shamanic music ritual to reveal the transcendence, or should I say, to facilitate you that connection. Even if there's no real transcendence, it doesn’t make the shamanic trance less magical. Various tracks wander into different poems and ideas. “Der Geist…”, for example, is from Goethe where Mephisto reveals his nature to Faust, what is evil. “Omen Tree” is one of my favourite tracks, I played Tibetan horn on this song, and hopefully we will go more in that direction. I don’t think there's one and only correct way to the interpretation of a piece of art. What artist wanted to put in there may be irrelevant. Any interpretation is as valid so let’s not waste time trying to figure it out because it’s a waste of time, and create your own.

Since I’ve mentioned Greek Mythology, does the “Five” in FIVE THE HIEROPHANT has any connection with the five rivers in the infernal regions in the Underworld?

I didn’t think it had a connection, but maybe it does now.

We would like to have you performing at Dark Bombastic Evening, as stated before, your music fits this festival perfectly. When it comes to live performances, do you have a preference for open spaces or rather for indoor shows? What would be your ideal setting for a live performance?

We have not played live as yet. We are working on it slowly, and hopefully, it will be possible soon. I personally much prefer playing indoors in smaller clubs because you can create more intense and immediate experience. I had this idea, there are catacombs in south London that I had visited, they are underneath a ruined church that doesn’t exist anymore, but the catacombs are still there, full of rotting coffins. It’s not open, and getting in is not easy, but it’s possible. That would be an ideal place to play, probably not full set with drums and stuff, but only ambient tracks. I’m not sure if that’s realistic, but ideal for sure. Playing DBE would be great too, of course, and we will work on it to happen.

Psychedelic Black Metal, Jazz, Post Metal, Ambient, heavy riffs, drone-like atmospheres and Black Metal intensity, all these in one magnificent album. Where from do you draw your inspiration, what other artists influence your creative act?

We don’t want to be labelled as this-or-other because that would be limiting. But you're right, we draw inspiration from so many places so far away from one another. From 70s rock to Doom and Black Metal, from Krautrock, psychedelic, via experimental music, to Noise, Ambient. From The Doors to Burzum... No, I’m not even going into listing it all because it will be practically impossible.

Well, enough about this philosophical mumbo-jumbo, after all, we’re all living here, now, on this Earth, heh… Moving on to more practical matters, how’s your daily life? Do you read, do you paint, do sports, and have normal jobs, party up until morning?

Never enough of philosophical mumbo-jumbo! Yes, I do all of the stuff you mentioned, I read a lot, as much as time allows it, and there's always piles of new books around my place. I just went through the brick autobiography of Cosey Fanni Tutti of Throbbing Gristle, and boy, that was some interesting, intense stuff there. Apart from that I read lots of historical stuff, political writings, mostly leftist, but I'm also into totalitarianism, Third Reich, war in Yugoslavia, from historical point of view of course, also psychology, philosophy, religions, art, some fiction, like Borges, Marquez, Houellebecq, and that’s only recent stuff. I used to paint a lot with oils, now not so much, due to lack of time. Of course, we have normal, or not so normal day jobs, and about partying well I’m not gonna get into that...

I assume earning money from making music is not yet the case since you’re releasing your first album in the next few days, so what are your expectations regarding this release? Do you envision widespread acclaim?

Let’s be realistic. With music of this type, experimental playing, it’s almost certainly not going to happen. Widespread acclaim... That sound like an insult. If something, a work of art, gains widespread acclaim, in the mainstream sense, there must be something seriously wrong with it. Because it receives a neat round of applause and everybody is pleased, it probably is safe, unchallenging, watered down, and predictable. Easy listening for the undemanding consumer. An antithesis of art. Yeah I know, every mediocre band claims high moral ground with this type of pretentious attitude. Anyways, making money is one of the last things we want to achieve here.

And one last question, what do you think of the Underground movement? Sometimes compromise comes at stake, there’s a fine line between underground and mainstream music, in your point of view where does mainstream begin?

I feel like I answered this question just now. Underground, independent art is where all the wild ideas are born. They are born out of authentic necessity, out of rebellion, out of a need to establish yourself in opposition to the rotten boring status quo. Then they become visible, and people start to follow it and adopt these ideas as their own. When something fresh becomes more popular, soon enough, they turn from revolutionary ideas to profit opportunities. They become watered down, packaged in small doses, easily digestible by novelty-hungry bored masses. Then it turns into its own caricature. End of cycle. Every (almost every) counter-cultural or artistic movement has been exploited and destroyed this way. Fucking humans, destroying everything they lay their hands on... So you tell me, is it better to be a starving unknown artist or household rockstar caricature for 9.99 buy one get one free? Sometimes I’m not sure myself.

To end this interview, we here at MUZAHOLIC evolve around the notion of “beauty”, whether it's music or the arts or simply life itself. What does “beauty” mean to you personally?

Well beauty... As an artist I try to remove myself from what is considered beauty as far as possible. I mean, something is beautiful, in traditional sense, it usually mean it's kitsch. Or it's pretentious. Probably it's strange but I find beauty in things that are considered ugly. In destruction and decay, and in imperfection. Also, in things that show me raw and naked reality. Things that shake me out of daily routine and lethargy. For example, I collect human skulls and I find them very beautiful. Hard to say why it's like that, I guess it depends on one's sensibility...

Thank you so much for taking time to answer these questions, good luck with the release!

Thanx for your support.

For us, this was an entertaining discussion, albeit short. We take this opportunity to remind you that the album can be listened to here. We shall see what and how we can make this happen, perhaps we will find the perfect catacomb for them, so we can all get to see them live.

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